Oh dear. Another highly intelligent man, Philip Johnston, has fallen for that old canard that public sector workers pay taxes. In an otherwise splendid article, he takes the public sector to task for their gold-plated pensions, which are paid for by the increasingly poor host they feast upon: Financial crisis: Why should I pay for MPs to have a comfortable retirement?
Although I'm expecting the usual dreary responses from retired civil servants, most of whom seem to think that their "taxes" keep the rest of the economy afloat, here was the necessary Maturin Towers response:
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Posted by Jack Maturin on October 20, 2008 11:23 AM
Public sector workers do not pay taxes. This is an accounting fiction promulgated by the governments to fool the rest of us into paying for these parasites.
Yes, it's a difficult sleight-of-hand to spot, but it can be revealed via a simple scenario.
Imagine that everyone stopped paying taxes. Now ask yourself what would the wages of any full-time public sector worker be?
The answer is of course, "absolutely nothing". Real taxpayers, of course, would all be better off, subject to other distortions such as those private companies that do all of their work for the public sector. If you follow the logic through, however, it does eventually become absolutely clear. Public sector workers do not pay taxes. And the more someone derives their income from the public sector, the less tax they pay.
If most people ever realised this, then there would probably be an instant revolution. So it is no wonder they hide the fact that public sector workers do not pay taxes, using the magical fiction of gross and net wages.
We ought to be ashamed of ourselves for continually falling for this simple trick.
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UPDATE: I did get lots of people with sidling remarks about how public sector workers pay tax, but none who would take me on directly, as they probably knew deep down the weakness of their position, however, I did eventually get the usual chippy state drone, as below:
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Posted by Teacher. on October 20, 2008 2:39 PM
"We ought to be ashamed of ourselves for continually falling for this simple trick."
Posted by Jack Maturin on October 20, 2008 11:23 AM
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No, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for failing to point out that without public servants there would be no-one to look after your kids while you are at work all day. Or save your life if you are ill. Or put out your house as it burns to the ground. Or cut you out of the wreckage of your car.
I am one of these people and this week, just like every other, I will work in excess of 50-60 hours.
During those hours, I will work harder than many 'private sector' workers.
I know, I used to be one of them.
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Oh dear, what a terrible shame. Still no answer as to my question of public sector workers paying tax, just sanctimonious drivel, but I felt it worth a response anyway. Here is my reply:
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Posted by Jack Maturin on October 20, 2008 5:29 PM
Posted by Teacher. on October 20, 2008 2:39 PM
“No, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for failing to point out that without public servants there would be no-one to look after your kids while you are at work all day.”
Oh dear, I have struck a nerve. I actually prefer to have my children educated at school, rather than merely “looked after” while I go out earning taxes for the government.
That’s why my children have never been to a government school to have their heads filled with Guardian reader nonsense, and for as long as I can afford it, while I remain in this God forsaken socialist client-state country, and while the taxes I must pay allow me any freedom of spending of any kind, I hope that remains the case. If only they would pay me back what I am forced to pay in taxes for government children warehousing facilities, I would be able to afford an even better education for my children.
“Or save your life if you are ill.”
If the NHS is so good, “Teacher”, allow people to opt out from it with all of their NHS contributions via their taxes paid back to them. Let’s bet on how many people stick with this dirty, chippy, dangerous doctor service if given the freedom to escape it. I would be out of the NHS like a shot. I predict that it would not last one year, without its tax-funded status, where we are forced to pay for it whether we want it or not.
“Or put out your house as it burns to the ground.”
Again, give me the option to get out of paying for local authority fire services, and allowed to pay for privately-provided services or contribute towards local volunteer services with no input from the state, then I would take it.
“Or cut you out of the wreckage of your car.”
Ditto for all rescue services. There is no technical reason why the AA or the RAC or even Green Flag couldn’t provide private road rescue services, and no reason why private ambulances and para-medics couldn’t attend accidents to whisk people to clean safe private hospitals. It is only the monopoly tax funding of state fire services which guarantees their role at car traffic accidents. Get rid of this status, give us our money back, and I’ll take a bet with you that the AA and the RAC would be able to cope.
“I am one of these people and this week, just like every other, I will work in excess of 50-60 hours.”
This is another reason I use private education services. The teachers there are not so stressed, have more energy because they are working less hours, and are far less angry and chippy, therefore not passing their negative energy and their endless socialist propaganda onto the children under their care. Thank you for confirming why I would be a fool to let my children fall under the care of a government teacher.
“During those hours, I will work harder than many 'private sector' workers.”
Oh dear, you really are suffering from martyr syndrome.
“I know, I used to be one of them.”
Well, without knowing your personal details it’s hard to work out why you felt the need to move to a job where you had to work harder and do more hours, so let’s not go there. But I think we can still agree on one thing.
Whether or not we can agree on any of the points above, and I suspect not, it still remains the case that you do not pay tax. If you think you do, just answer my original question in my original post, rather than piling in with all of this sanctimonious invective.
If you think that public sector workers would have any income, if everyone stopped paying tax, please enlighten me as to how this would be possible? If you could then let me know how I could stop paying your wages, I would be doubly pleased. I have no wish to employ you in any capacity whatsoever. That I am forced to employ you, and pay you a salary, via the state taxation machine, I consider an outrage.
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That should get a response! :-)
Pip pip!!
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It did get a response, but not the one I expected. A gentleman of quality writes:
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Posted by alex on October 20, 2008 6:56 PM
Posted by Jack Maturin on October 20, 2008 5:29 PM
I salute you sir, thx for that and well said.
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The pleasure was all mine! ;-)
2 comments:
Excellent blog. Excellent postings by yourself showing up the muddled thinking that dominates our society but ... err ... could you refrain from calling me a parasite please?
Ta.
I've got to needle the enemy, anonymous, to get some response. If you could explain how I called you a parasite, I will try to get back in your good books by some cunning double-think - though as a hard-core Hoppeian, I have to call it as I see it.
If it makes you feel any better, just like virtually everyone in this current society, in which we rob everyone else via the mechanism of the state, I am almost certainly a form of parasite myself, because I make my living servicing some of the more esoteric needs of the financial industry.
Yes, I have excuses. I have moved into this area in a deliberate attempt to understand how the beast works, so that when the revolution comes I will be in a position to help, plus my readings of Austrian economics in the last few years, particularly Michael Rozeff, has fascinated me on how the whole shooting match falls together.
But I'm sure you could easily construct an argument for why I am as evil as a revenue producing licensed highwayman, sorry, traffic policeman.
None of us are without sin. Also, in some areas, it is impossible not to be a full parasite. For instance, outside of Buckingham University perhaps, how can you be a professor of economics, even an Austrian professor of economics, without subsisting off filthy stolen state/mafia lucre?
Even Professor Hoppe himself takes an income off the University of Nevada! :-)
It's all very complicated. The fungal filaments of this country's ruling mafia, which have been strangling us since at least 1066, are very difficult to avoid.
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